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	<title>Comments on: The current state of Vintage</title>
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		<title>By: Aaron Patten</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-475516</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Patten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Mar 2011 00:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-475516</guid>
		<description>The problem with the meta has to do with the 2008 restrictions.  Neutering blue&#039;s ability to dig means that mud prison and other decks based on the turn 1 and 2 locks or wins can dominate.  There needs to be a control element in vintage that is interactive for the format to be fun.  The heavy presence of blue in the format allowed for this.  Before flash was dominant there were decks of every combination of colours and strategies making top 8s everywhere.  Now there are 3 with the occasional rogue deck.  The health of the format dwindled with the restriction of Brainstorm since that was the key card in the defensive strategies that can be accessed on turns 1 and 2.  Those defensive strategies need to be strong to keep these kinds of decks in balance.  There are no restrictions that are necesary.  In 2008 the restriction of flash and merchant scroll would have ben sufficient to stabilize vintage but the restriction of every other card has heavily destabilized it.  In 2008 these cards were restricted:
Brainstorm is restricted
 Flash is restricted
 Gush is restricted
 Merchant Scroll is restricted
 Ponder is restricted
The only cards on this list that should be restricte are:
 Merchant Scroll is restricted
 Flash is restricted
The metagame prior to this set of restrictions was in perfect balance until flash hulk became dominant with the printing of protean hulk in 2006 followed by the de-errata of flash in 2007.  

The goal is balance.  The key to this is unrestriction, not further restriction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with the meta has to do with the 2008 restrictions.  Neutering blue&#8217;s ability to dig means that mud prison and other decks based on the turn 1 and 2 locks or wins can dominate.  There needs to be a control element in vintage that is interactive for the format to be fun.  The heavy presence of blue in the format allowed for this.  Before flash was dominant there were decks of every combination of colours and strategies making top 8s everywhere.  Now there are 3 with the occasional rogue deck.  The health of the format dwindled with the restriction of Brainstorm since that was the key card in the defensive strategies that can be accessed on turns 1 and 2.  Those defensive strategies need to be strong to keep these kinds of decks in balance.  There are no restrictions that are necesary.  In 2008 the restriction of flash and merchant scroll would have ben sufficient to stabilize vintage but the restriction of every other card has heavily destabilized it.  In 2008 these cards were restricted:<br />
Brainstorm is restricted<br />
 Flash is restricted<br />
 Gush is restricted<br />
 Merchant Scroll is restricted<br />
 Ponder is restricted<br />
The only cards on this list that should be restricte are:<br />
 Merchant Scroll is restricted<br />
 Flash is restricted<br />
The metagame prior to this set of restrictions was in perfect balance until flash hulk became dominant with the printing of protean hulk in 2006 followed by the de-errata of flash in 2007.  </p>
<p>The goal is balance.  The key to this is unrestriction, not further restriction.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: March 2010 DCI Banned &#38; Restricted List&#160;&#124;&#160;Team Pataners</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474960</link>
		<dc:creator>March 2010 DCI Banned &#38; Restricted List&#160;&#124;&#160;Team Pataners</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474960</guid>
		<description>[...] The current state of Vintage   Register, Login &amp; more! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The current state of Vintage   Register, Login &amp; more! [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MonS</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474937</link>
		<dc:creator>MonS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474937</guid>
		<description>great  article friend,but I cannot agree,with you :)
Just in my opinion,actually the game is quite balanced.....
artifact yeah has the new golem,but is simple to play with against-artifact cards....the real big deck nowadays is fish....spell pierce really rocks,and null rod too :)
but fish has not a good drawn-engine,that is relly important in vintage so....the game is still open :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great  article friend,but I cannot agree,with you <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Just in my opinion,actually the game is quite balanced&#8230;..<br />
artifact yeah has the new golem,but is simple to play with against-artifact cards&#8230;.the real big deck nowadays is fish&#8230;.spell pierce really rocks,and null rod too <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
but fish has not a good drawn-engine,that is relly important in vintage so&#8230;.the game is still open <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: JACO</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474936</link>
		<dc:creator>JACO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474936</guid>
		<description>I understand the difference between US and Europe, but based on your statistics that doesn&#039;t seem to have much limiting factor on what decks people choose to play. 4 people played Oath and 19 players chose either Fish or Workshop strategies. Oath is the natural predator to those strategies, and that&#039;s what you should be playing. It&#039;s not like Oath is more expensive than the 13 Tezzeret decks that were played. 

Lodestone Golem is very good, but it&#039;s not unbeatable. Play better cards against Workshop decks. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understand the difference between US and Europe, but based on your statistics that doesn&#8217;t seem to have much limiting factor on what decks people choose to play. 4 people played Oath and 19 players chose either Fish or Workshop strategies. Oath is the natural predator to those strategies, and that&#8217;s what you should be playing. It&#8217;s not like Oath is more expensive than the 13 Tezzeret decks that were played. </p>
<p>Lodestone Golem is very good, but it&#8217;s not unbeatable. Play better cards against Workshop decks. <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Zero</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474935</link>
		<dc:creator>Zero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 15:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474935</guid>
		<description>Before Lodestone arrival vintage was an equilibrated format, taking in consideration the slightly metagame coverage of drain-based decks with classical blue-black platform (Drains+Fow+Library+Tolarian+Ancestral+TimeWalk+FoF+Tutors+Moxes+BL+Draw engine) splashed with green (Aggro-Tarmo) black (Drain-Tendrils/Tezz-Vault) and/or Red/white (silver bullets). I think that in this landscape templates like Oath, Dredge, MUD/Stax and Fish were highly competitive through Vault-directed sideboarding/regular engines (Pithing, Spheres, Tangles, Rods, etc). It&#039;s true that Vault rising was so disturbing at the first time, however you&#039;ll agree that last versions of Tezz (Turbo-Tezz or Steel City Vault even planeswalker-less) had several troubles to easily win against Fish or Stax. 
Taking my first appointment... yes! the problem is not Vault, or Wastelands, Rods. The problem is Lodestone descompensation. Do you imagine a new demonic-like tutor for Combo?. Do you imagine a new dredge-10 card for Ichorid? No, because metagame would directly crash. Yes! This is what is happening now!. The solution is so easy. 

- Lodestone restriction
- Permission of ponder and/or brainstorm
- Permission of ToK (this will let the re-entering of Bomberman and Slaver, just new old friends)

Pizzero I completely disagree with you. I cannot understand like a combo man like you is thinking to ban Vault (combo will be only Drain Tendrils and Remora Trap decks? OH MY GOD!). The solution is easier to trash vintage format looking at Wasteland, Rod or Vault restriction. Concretely, the restriction would increase the number of sigle-&quot;powa&quot; cards. What is our achievement? A random format? No`, please

Regards, 

Zero</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Before Lodestone arrival vintage was an equilibrated format, taking in consideration the slightly metagame coverage of drain-based decks with classical blue-black platform (Drains+Fow+Library+Tolarian+Ancestral+TimeWalk+FoF+Tutors+Moxes+BL+Draw engine) splashed with green (Aggro-Tarmo) black (Drain-Tendrils/Tezz-Vault) and/or Red/white (silver bullets). I think that in this landscape templates like Oath, Dredge, MUD/Stax and Fish were highly competitive through Vault-directed sideboarding/regular engines (Pithing, Spheres, Tangles, Rods, etc). It&#8217;s true that Vault rising was so disturbing at the first time, however you&#8217;ll agree that last versions of Tezz (Turbo-Tezz or Steel City Vault even planeswalker-less) had several troubles to easily win against Fish or Stax.<br />
Taking my first appointment&#8230; yes! the problem is not Vault, or Wastelands, Rods. The problem is Lodestone descompensation. Do you imagine a new demonic-like tutor for Combo?. Do you imagine a new dredge-10 card for Ichorid? No, because metagame would directly crash. Yes! This is what is happening now!. The solution is so easy. </p>
<p>- Lodestone restriction<br />
- Permission of ponder and/or brainstorm<br />
- Permission of ToK (this will let the re-entering of Bomberman and Slaver, just new old friends)</p>
<p>Pizzero I completely disagree with you. I cannot understand like a combo man like you is thinking to ban Vault (combo will be only Drain Tendrils and Remora Trap decks? OH MY GOD!). The solution is easier to trash vintage format looking at Wasteland, Rod or Vault restriction. Concretely, the restriction would increase the number of sigle-&#8221;powa&#8221; cards. What is our achievement? A random format? No`, please</p>
<p>Regards, </p>
<p>Zero</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: piZZero</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474933</link>
		<dc:creator>piZZero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474933</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t just ban Time Vault and do nothing else. If you do that, then the format will be even worse as control will have absolutely no chances to defeat Shops &amp; Fish.

Combo will, obviously, rise if the mentioned restriction ever take place. But you know how to combat Combo decks, right? Where&#039;s combo now? 

I agree that the article is influenced by what I play and my lack of success (although I don&#039;t whine about it. I don&#039;t win simply because I don&#039;t play enough), but what truly made me write this article was what I could see at the tables. 

All I&#039;m saying is that Vintage needs a BIG change if we don&#039;t want it to die. MUD decks are unfun to play against. First turn Golem is almost GG, the same way it was a first turn Trinisphere some years ago.  

When a format becomes unfun, people tend to stop playing it. The printing of cards like Thorn of Amethyst or Lodestone Golem, added to Sphere of resistance, Trinisphere, Wasteland, Null Rod, etc... make the games truly boring and very hard to play. The same goes for restrictions/unrestrictions and re-erratas of certain cards. If you allow some cards with power level erratas to work as they were intended, then the format can also become boring and unfun (example: Time Vault).

Remember that the goal behind playing Vintage (and Magic) is to have fun. Personally, I don&#039;t have fun with the current metagame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can&#8217;t just ban Time Vault and do nothing else. If you do that, then the format will be even worse as control will have absolutely no chances to defeat Shops &#038; Fish.</p>
<p>Combo will, obviously, rise if the mentioned restriction ever take place. But you know how to combat Combo decks, right? Where&#8217;s combo now? </p>
<p>I agree that the article is influenced by what I play and my lack of success (although I don&#8217;t whine about it. I don&#8217;t win simply because I don&#8217;t play enough), but what truly made me write this article was what I could see at the tables. </p>
<p>All I&#8217;m saying is that Vintage needs a BIG change if we don&#8217;t want it to die. MUD decks are unfun to play against. First turn Golem is almost GG, the same way it was a first turn Trinisphere some years ago.  </p>
<p>When a format becomes unfun, people tend to stop playing it. The printing of cards like Thorn of Amethyst or Lodestone Golem, added to Sphere of resistance, Trinisphere, Wasteland, Null Rod, etc&#8230; make the games truly boring and very hard to play. The same goes for restrictions/unrestrictions and re-erratas of certain cards. If you allow some cards with power level erratas to work as they were intended, then the format can also become boring and unfun (example: Time Vault).</p>
<p>Remember that the goal behind playing Vintage (and Magic) is to have fun. Personally, I don&#8217;t have fun with the current metagame.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eduard</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474932</link>
		<dc:creator>Eduard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474932</guid>
		<description>I totally disagree with you, Pizzero. restricting those 3 staples in vintage would make combo and control run rampant, so no other archetype would shadow them. 
On the other hand, banning Time Vault would make totally sense, since nowadays you can only choose to play the dumb combo (el tonto-combo) or a deck constructed to beat (if lucky) that stupid two card interaction.

Your wishes in Legacy (banning Tarmo) and Vintage (restricting Workshop, Null Rod, and Waste) come because of the decks you tend to play. Me, on the other hand loves to play those cards, and my wishes are that WotC BANN Time Vault.

Anyway, Noble fish can&#039;t almost handle a Sphinx, since you need to maindeck swords against a CONTROL deck, a card that should be sided out against this archetype.

My 2 cents</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally disagree with you, Pizzero. restricting those 3 staples in vintage would make combo and control run rampant, so no other archetype would shadow them.<br />
On the other hand, banning Time Vault would make totally sense, since nowadays you can only choose to play the dumb combo (el tonto-combo) or a deck constructed to beat (if lucky) that stupid two card interaction.</p>
<p>Your wishes in Legacy (banning Tarmo) and Vintage (restricting Workshop, Null Rod, and Waste) come because of the decks you tend to play. Me, on the other hand loves to play those cards, and my wishes are that WotC BANN Time Vault.</p>
<p>Anyway, Noble fish can&#8217;t almost handle a Sphinx, since you need to maindeck swords against a CONTROL deck, a card that should be sided out against this archetype.</p>
<p>My 2 cents</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: piZZero</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474928</link>
		<dc:creator>piZZero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:55:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474928</guid>
		<description>Jason, the Vintage played in USA differs a lot to the Vintage we play in here, and the reason behind that is quite simple: Proxies. 

These are the numbers provided by Roger Riera for the February tournament:

* Decks and average points by archetype:
20 Drain decks (39,2% of metagame, 5/8 at Top 8)
--- 5 Tezzeret Control: 11,6; F
--- 3 TurboTezz: 16,7; C,T4
--- 2 Remora Tendrils: 19; T4,T8
--- 2 Almost Blue: 10,5
--- 2 Remora Tezzeret: 9
--- 1 Mono Blue Tezzeret: 9
--- 1 Tezzeret Control transformer: 9
--- 1 Intuitive: 7
--- 1 Control Confidant: 6
--- 1 Tezzeret Tendrils: 6
--- 1 Drain Tendrils: 3
13 Null Rod decks (25,5% of metagame, 1/8 at Top 8)
--- 4 U/W/G Fish: 11,8; T8
--- 3 U/W Fish: 8,3
--- 3 Merfolks: 6,7
--- 1 Oath: 9
--- 1 Hexmage Depths: 4
--- 1 B/G Control: 0
6 Workshop decks (11,8% of metagame, 1/8 at Top 8)
--- 2 Aggro MUD: 9
--- 2 MUD: 9
--- 1 U/R Stacks: 16; T8
--- 1 Black Vised MUD: 12
6 other archetypes (11,8% of metagame)
--- 3 Oath: 7,3
--- 1 B/U/G Fish: 9
--- 1 Wizards: 9
--- 1 R/B/w Goblins: 6
4 Ritual decks (7,8% of metagame, 1/8 at Top 8)
--- 3 The Perfect Storm: 10,3; T8
--- 1 ANT: 12
2 Ichorid decks (3,9% of metagame)
--- 1 Manaless Ichorid: 8
--- 1 Mana Ichorid: 3


Null Rod + Workshop VS Mana Drain are equal in numbers, the difference is that Mana Drain decks have lot more restricted cards than those other two archetypes. 

This chart shows something interesting, the evolution of the archetypes from January (inside ring) and February (outer ring):

&lt;img src=&quot;http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/gRR_RRg/Grafics%20LCV/GrficLCV6-2-2.jpg&quot; alt=&quot;&quot; /&gt;

I&#039;m actually waiting to see how it looks the March vs February chart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason, the Vintage played in USA differs a lot to the Vintage we play in here, and the reason behind that is quite simple: Proxies. </p>
<p>These are the numbers provided by Roger Riera for the February tournament:</p>
<p>* Decks and average points by archetype:<br />
20 Drain decks (39,2% of metagame, 5/8 at Top <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8212; 5 Tezzeret Control: 11,6; F<br />
&#8212; 3 TurboTezz: 16,7; C,T4<br />
&#8212; 2 Remora Tendrils: 19; T4,T8<br />
&#8212; 2 Almost Blue: 10,5<br />
&#8212; 2 Remora Tezzeret: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 Mono Blue Tezzeret: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 Tezzeret Control transformer: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 Intuitive: 7<br />
&#8212; 1 Control Confidant: 6<br />
&#8212; 1 Tezzeret Tendrils: 6<br />
&#8212; 1 Drain Tendrils: 3<br />
13 Null Rod decks (25,5% of metagame, 1/8 at Top <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8212; 4 U/W/G Fish: 11,8; T8<br />
&#8212; 3 U/W Fish: 8,3<br />
&#8212; 3 Merfolks: 6,7<br />
&#8212; 1 Oath: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 Hexmage Depths: 4<br />
&#8212; 1 B/G Control: 0<br />
6 Workshop decks (11,8% of metagame, 1/8 at Top <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8212; 2 Aggro MUD: 9<br />
&#8212; 2 MUD: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 U/R Stacks: 16; T8<br />
&#8212; 1 Black Vised MUD: 12<br />
6 other archetypes (11,8% of metagame)<br />
&#8212; 3 Oath: 7,3<br />
&#8212; 1 B/U/G Fish: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 Wizards: 9<br />
&#8212; 1 R/B/w Goblins: 6<br />
4 Ritual decks (7,8% of metagame, 1/8 at Top <img src='http://www.team-pataners.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#8212; 3 The Perfect Storm: 10,3; T8<br />
&#8212; 1 ANT: 12<br />
2 Ichorid decks (3,9% of metagame)<br />
&#8212; 1 Manaless Ichorid: 8<br />
&#8212; 1 Mana Ichorid: 3</p>
<p>Null Rod + Workshop VS Mana Drain are equal in numbers, the difference is that Mana Drain decks have lot more restricted cards than those other two archetypes. </p>
<p>This chart shows something interesting, the evolution of the archetypes from January (inside ring) and February (outer ring):</p>
<p><img src="http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb224/gRR_RRg/Grafics%20LCV/GrficLCV6-2-2.jpg" alt="" /></p>
<p>I&#8217;m actually waiting to see how it looks the March vs February chart.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JACO</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474927</link>
		<dc:creator>JACO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:39:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474927</guid>
		<description>I think Vintage is fine. Fish isn&#039;t too fast, just not enough people are playing Oath where you&#039;re at. Oath can abuse a Fish infested metagame, and that&#039;s what keeps Fish numbers low in the USA. 

I wouldn&#039;t mind if Time Vault&#039;s wording was changed again, but I definitely don&#039;t want any more cards added to the Restricted List. That&#039;s a big no-no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Vintage is fine. Fish isn&#8217;t too fast, just not enough people are playing Oath where you&#8217;re at. Oath can abuse a Fish infested metagame, and that&#8217;s what keeps Fish numbers low in the USA. </p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t mind if Time Vault&#8217;s wording was changed again, but I definitely don&#8217;t want any more cards added to the Restricted List. That&#8217;s a big no-no.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: xouman</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474926</link>
		<dc:creator>xouman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474926</guid>
		<description>4 control decks made top 8 -that&#039;s not a bad performance :p Only one fish (and not a common fish, Detion is quite original with his choices, so people can&#039;t expect his plays most of the time), one oath, one mud and one ichorid.

I know control is the most flavoured vintage deck, since it features most of the restricted and broken cards in Magic, but half the top shows that there shouldn&#039;t be restrictions to weak other archetypes. Null rod would be a great loss, as wasteland. The most powered card in that deck is the common one, qasali, since it beats, pumps other creatures and strips artifacts/enchantments as an instant for few mana. Too hard for me :p

And now Lodestone is like a qasali but bigger and maybe more annoying. A T1 Lodestone is often gg, so restriction can be a real possibility next update of BR List (not now, too early). Mud can be a top performer, but it is &quot;easy&quot; to counter with a good SB, as Ichorid. The problem is that Mud, as Ichorid, requires specific SB in order to be really effective, but there is still no trouble: 1 deck of 8 is not a great deal, even if it manages to win the tournament.

BTW, I&#039;m with chapuzas, the land will only give 2 colorless mana for eldrazzi spells</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>4 control decks made top 8 -that&#8217;s not a bad performance :p Only one fish (and not a common fish, Detion is quite original with his choices, so people can&#8217;t expect his plays most of the time), one oath, one mud and one ichorid.</p>
<p>I know control is the most flavoured vintage deck, since it features most of the restricted and broken cards in Magic, but half the top shows that there shouldn&#8217;t be restrictions to weak other archetypes. Null rod would be a great loss, as wasteland. The most powered card in that deck is the common one, qasali, since it beats, pumps other creatures and strips artifacts/enchantments as an instant for few mana. Too hard for me :p</p>
<p>And now Lodestone is like a qasali but bigger and maybe more annoying. A T1 Lodestone is often gg, so restriction can be a real possibility next update of BR List (not now, too early). Mud can be a top performer, but it is &#8220;easy&#8221; to counter with a good SB, as Ichorid. The problem is that Mud, as Ichorid, requires specific SB in order to be really effective, but there is still no trouble: 1 deck of 8 is not a great deal, even if it manages to win the tournament.</p>
<p>BTW, I&#8217;m with chapuzas, the land will only give 2 colorless mana for eldrazzi spells</p>
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		<title>By: piZZero</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474925</link>
		<dc:creator>piZZero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474925</guid>
		<description>Both are rumored, so it has the same chances to be either one or the other. 

Still, the printing or not of that land makes absolute no difference to the point of the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Both are rumored, so it has the same chances to be either one or the other. </p>
<p>Still, the printing or not of that land makes absolute no difference to the point of the article.</p>
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		<title>By: chapuzas</title>
		<link>http://www.team-pataners.com/the-current-state-of-vintage/comment-page-1/#comment-474924</link>
		<dc:creator>chapuzas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.team-pataners.com/?p=1879#comment-474924</guid>
		<description>The problem is that this:

Eldrazi´s Temple
Land
Tap: Add one coloress to your mana pool.
Tap: Add two coloress to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast coloress spells. 

won&#039;t see print.... While this:

Eldrazi´s Temple
Land
Tap: Add one coloress to your mana pool.
Tap: Add two coloress to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast coloress ELDRAZI spells. 

might see print, and sucks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is that this:</p>
<p>Eldrazi´s Temple<br />
Land<br />
Tap: Add one coloress to your mana pool.<br />
Tap: Add two coloress to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast coloress spells. </p>
<p>won&#8217;t see print&#8230;. While this:</p>
<p>Eldrazi´s Temple<br />
Land<br />
Tap: Add one coloress to your mana pool.<br />
Tap: Add two coloress to your mana pool. Use this mana only to cast coloress ELDRAZI spells. </p>
<p>might see print, and sucks.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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